very nice. I have been thinking about using emergy but I havn't been able to work ith though full. It does have some good points which makes it worth while looking into but I wonder how things like recycling will work with it. For example, wont the recycling add to the emergy costs and make it more costly then digging out new ore?

I think it all depends on possible trade-offs of each approach. Even with recycling versus mining there are somewhat quantifiable costs involved that could be mulled over or subjected to formulaic calculations.

For example, given that present mining techniques is a very polluting and labor intensive process the amount of pollution that degrades the present environment and therefore incurring costs in real physical terms for resources that require cleanup before being able to be used again can be measured against the alternative like recycling which may also incur costs for generating the energy required to re-process manufactured goods back to their constituent elements. If the energy generated in doing this is also polluting then that really is a measure of physical inefficiency. If a process is 100% efficient (which is thermodynamically impossible) then there would be no pollutants. But, since one of the primary aims of technocracy is to maximize physical efficiency in return for usable energy, the amount of pollution in both processes can be measured and the process which gives the greatest return of usable energy (or resources which is derived from the use of energy) per standard unit of energy used as inputs in the respective processes that is being compared can be chosen.

Regardless of the method used recycling or extraction then if given the same amount of energy to invest in production. Let's say 100 MJ then the process that return the greatest amount of usable resources is the less polluting because by definition unusable by-products in the process of production is pollution and therefore is a physical inefficiency.

Is it not a Recycling thread hidden somewhere?

technatezin wrote:


Yes, fair enough but then the emergy / pollution of recycling will increase the more you recycle. As each bit of material goes around and around the energy used to recycle it and the pollution produced increases so that even if the pollution / energy returns for recycling is less that that for extraction over time it will add up to become greater than extraction. So, even if recycling uses less energy and produces less pollution for each turn of the handle than extraction if we account the emergy cost that adds up over time it wont be long before recycling look the worse option, where as extraction would really be the worst option.

That’s the concern I have with using emergy. However, I haven’t full investigated this so I’m note sure if we can’t have some way of using emergy to minimise the over all cost of energy consumption with out making recycling look the less attractive option.